SoCon Football Coaches ‘dis’ Mercer

FUBeAR
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SoCon Football Coaches ‘dis’ Mercer Jul 25, 2018 10:12:48 GMT -5

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Post by FUBeAR on Jul 25, 2018 10:12:48 GMT -5

The SoCon, today, released the Preseason Rankings of the Media & the Coaches as well as the preseason All SoCon Team selected by the Coaches.

The biggest surprise, to me, is the tremendous level of disrespect that SoCon Coaches are showing for Mercer.

FOOTBALL COACHES SELECT PRESEASON ALL-CONFERENCE TEAMS, POLL

MEDIA PICKS SAMFORD TO WIN 2018 SOCON FOOTBALL TITLE

2018 Preseason Southern Conference Coaches Poll
Team (1st-place votes) Total
1. Samford (7) 63
2. Wofford (1) 53
3. Furman (1) 52
4. Western Carolina 39
5. Chattanooga 34
6. Mercer 32
7. The Citadel 28
8. ETSU 15
9. VMI 8

Mercer beat WCU and Chatt (soundly) last year & returns most of the Starters + many exciting newcomers. WCU lost their best RB & Returner (one of their best ever), all of their WR’s, and most of a so-so Defense. Chatt’s Starting QB was suspended for the season this week & who knows if they can return from what was an unquestionable disaster of a season for them last year.

If I’m doing the math right, in the Coaches Poll, [EDIT...I WASN’T (the math)...no surprise] A good bellhops Fan, if you’ll pardon that oxymoron, ‘splained it to me though....

Mercer received the following votes from SoCon Head Coaches...
3rd Place - 1
4th Place - 1
5th Place - 3
6th Place - 3

So...even though no Coaches voted Mercer lower than 6th Place and less than 1/2 of them voted the Bears that low, the way the math worked out, that’s where they finished in the pre-season rankings. So, maybe not quite as disrespectful as I initially thought, but there are still those 3 Head Coaches that slotted Mercer in the #6 spot...even though they have finished 5th past 2 years & return most of the Team, etc. My money would bet that the 3 Head Coaches of the 3 Teams picked lower than Mercer - Citadel, ETSU, and VMI - were the 3 that slotted Mercer in 6th while placing the other 2 (of their bottom 3 ‘pals’) in 7th & 8th.

If so, that means...
* a Coach who has taken his predecessor’s Team from back-to-back Championships to the near-bottom & who I think may be ‘at-risk’ after this season...doesn’t respect Mercer Football
* a Coach whose overall 3 year Head coaching record is 5-28 (0-11 last year) and whose SoCon record is 2-21 & who I think will not be a Head Coach next season...doesn’t respect Mercer Football
* a brand new Head Coach, who was fired from his most recent OC job & has already been suspended by his school for a time from his duties as a SoCon Head Coach...doesn’t respect Mercer Football.

...and, suddenly, I’m pretty OK with that 6th Place ranking.

Interestingly, the Coaches named more Mercer Players to the Pre-Season All SoCon Team than any other SoCon school except Wofford. How does that make sense when they are ranked 6th?

The Media ranked Mercer, as would be expected, behind Samford, Furman, and Wofford.

2018 Preseason Southern Conference Media Poll
Team (1st-place votes) Total
1. Samford (20) 204
2. Furman (2) 174
3. Wofford (1) 163
4. Mercer 133
5. Western Carolina 114
6. Chattanooga 88
7. The Citadel 83
8. ETSU 53
9. VMI 23

2018 Preseason (Coaches) All-Southern Conference Football Teams
Offensive Player of the Year: Devlin Hodges, R-Sr., QB, Samford
Defensive Player of the Year: Ahmad Gooden, R-Sr., DL, Samford

First team offense
QB Devlin Hodges, R-Sr., Samford
RB Kealand Dirks, R-Sr., Furman
RB Andre Stoddard, Sr., Wofford
OL Tyler Davis, Sr., The Citadel
OL Austin Sanders, R-Jr., Mercer
OL Nick Nixon, Jr., Samford
OL Zach Weeks, R-Sr., Western Carolina
OL Michael Ralph, Jr., Wofford
TE Sam Walker, R-Sr., Mercer
WR Marquise Irvin, Sr., Mercer
WR Kelvin McKnight, Sr., Samford

First team defense
DL Nasir Player, R-Jr., ETSU
DL Ahmad Gooden, R-Sr., Samford
DL Isaiah Mack, R-Sr., Chattanooga
DL Miles Brown, Sr., Wofford
LB Elijah McKoy, So., Furman
LB LeMarkus Bailey, R-Sr., Mercer
LB Datavious Wilson, Jr., Wofford
DB Aron Spann III, Sr., The Citadel
DB Aaquil Annoor, Sr., Furman
DB Marvin Tillman, Sr., Western Carolina
DB Devin Watson, Sr., Wofford

First team specialists
PK Luke Carter, Jr., Wofford
P Ian Berryman, R-Sr., Western Carolina
RS Brandon Dowdell, So., Chattanooga

Second team offense
QB Tyrie Adams, R-Jr., Western Carolina
RB Tee Mitchell, Sr., Mercer
RB Tyrell Price, Jr., Chattanooga
OL Drew McEntyre, Jr., The Citadel
OL Matt Pyke, R-Sr., ETSU
OL Reed Kroeber, R-So., Furman
OL Malcolm White, R-Jr., Chattanooga
OL Brad Davis, So., VMI
OL Nathan Dalton, R-Sr., Western Carolina
OL Andrew Miles, R-Sr., Western Carolina
OL Justus Basinger, Jr., Wofford
TE Jake Walker, So., Furman
WR Thomas Gordon, Jr., Furman
WR Chris Shelling, Jr., Samford
WR Bingo Morton, R-Sr., Chattanooga

Second team defense
DL Ja’Lon Williams, Jr., The Citadel
DL Jaylan Reid, R-Sr., Furman
DL Isaiah Buehler, R-Sr., Mercer
DL Mikel Horton, Jr., Wofford
LB Noah Dawkins, Sr., The Citadel
LB Dylan Weigel, R-Sr., ETSU
LB Christian Stark, Sr., Samford
DB Eric Jackson, R-Jr., Mercer
DB Darius Harvey, R-Sr., Samford
DB Kareem Orr, Sr., Chattanooga
DB Mason Alstatt, Jr., Wofford

Second team specialists
PK JJ Jerman, Sr., ETSU
P Matt Shiel, Gr., Mercer
P Luke Carter, Jr., Wofford
RS Quan Harrison R-Jr., ETSU

Last Edit: Jul 25, 2018 18:07:02 GMT -5 by FUBeAR

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For he today that sheds his blood with me, shall be my brother.

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SoCon Football Coaches ‘dis’ Mercer Jul 25, 2018 14:19:48 GMT -5 mumd likes this

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Post by Guest on Jul 25, 2018 14:19:48 GMT -5

Jul 25, 2018 10:12:48 GMT -5 FUBeAR said:

Interestingly, the Coaches named more Mercer Players to the Pre-Season All SoCon Team than any other SoCon school except Wofford. How does that make sense when they are ranked 6th?

I'd say they disrespect the head coach, more than the players. The proof is in the picks.

FUBeAR
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SoCon Football Coaches ‘dis’ Mercer Jul 25, 2018 15:19:23 GMT -5

Quote

Post by FUBeAR on Jul 25, 2018 15:19:23 GMT -5

Jul 25, 2018 14:19:48 GMT -5 Guest said:

Jul 25, 2018 10:12:48 GMT -5 FUBeAR said:

Interestingly, the Coaches named more Mercer Players to the Pre-Season All SoCon Team than any other SoCon school except Wofford. How does that make sense when they are ranked 6th?

I'd say they disrespect the head coach, more than the players. The proof is in the picks.

Well, other than vs. Wofford & Samford, the actual PROOF has been that Mercer’s Head Coach AND his Players were able to whip their a$$e$ while, in most cases, playing with a much younger Team and/or many fewer scholarships...

Furman in 2015 & 2016
WCU in 2016 & 2017
Chatt in 2015 & 2017
Citadel in 2017
ETSU in 2015 & 2016
VMI in 2014, 2016, & 2017

...and if we want to add in ‘escaped losing by the skin of their teeth’ to that Head Coach they “don’t respect” AND his Players, then you can add 3 of those in 2014, 3 in 2015, 2 in 2016, and 3 in 2017.

Yes. An L is an L and the scoreboard is the scoreboard, but Coaches don’t typically lack competitive respect for Teams AND/OR their Head Coaches that they lose to nor over which they barely win very close games. That has been the case in 23 of 31 games vs. SoCon Teams that Mercer has played in their time in the Conference.

NO SIR. The 2018 SoCon Preseason Coaches Poll CLEARLY is highly disrepectful of Mercer’s ENTIRE Football Program. Mercer has finished 5th in the SoCon the past 2 years and has been ‘eyelashes’ from finishing much higher every season since 2015. Each season, they have beaten or lost nail biters to the Teams that are now and have been at the top of the Conference. The Bears may finish in 9th place this year and lose every game 100-0, but to pick them 6th based on past performance, returning Players, and expected talent of new Players is sheer & total DISRESPECT.

Last Edit: Jul 25, 2018 15:24:39 GMT -5 by FUBeAR

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he today that sheds his blood with me, shall be my brother.

jackal
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Posts: 659

SoCon Football Coaches ‘dis’ Mercer Jul 25, 2018 21:36:06 GMT -5

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Post by jackal on Jul 25, 2018 21:36:06 GMT -5

I mean, if we are going to go down this rabbit hole, remember that most of the SoCon teams return most of their core players. Mercer returns a bunch of players, but so does everyone else with the probable exceptions of Wofford and VMI.

I don't think the logic is that complicated. Samford, Wofford, and Furman finished with the best records in the league. All three beat Mercer. I see no cause to be perturbed about being slotted behind them.

WCU had the league's fourth-best record, finished ahead of Mercer in both conference play and season total. You can make an argument for Mercer to be slotted ahead of them, but it's no great surprise that they are not.

The Citadel had a worse record than Mercer and lost to the Bears. They are naturally slotted behind them.

VMI and ETSU are clearly the two worst teams. They are placed where they should be.

The only potential gripe I see is that UTC is picked ahead of Mercer. Admittedly, that is not where I would put them, but I do not think there is some deep disrespect for the Mercer program. Other than that, I think there's a pretty strong argument for every team to be placed where they are.

Besides, if we assume that the votes are assigned a point total as you suggest, the results largely comport with the feeling of many on the state of the SoCon going into 2018: (1) Samford is a narrow front runner, (2) the middle of the pack is dense and somewhat interchangeable, and (3) VMI is the worst team.

FUBeAR
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SoCon Football Coaches ‘dis’ Mercer Jul 26, 2018 0:41:19 GMT -5

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Post by FUBeAR on Jul 26, 2018 0:41:19 GMT -5

Jul 25, 2018 21:36:06 GMT -5 jackal said:

I mean, if we are going to go down this rabbit hole, remember that most of the SoCon teams return most of their core players. Mercer returns a bunch of players, but so does everyone else with the probable exceptions of Wofford and VMI.

I don't think the logic is that complicated. Samford, Wofford, and Furman finished with the best records in the league. All three beat Mercer. I see no cause to be perturbed about being slotted behind them.

WCU had the league's fourth-best record, finished ahead of Mercer in both conference play and season total. You can make an argument for Mercer to be slotted ahead of them, but it's no great surprise that they are not.

The Citadel had a worse record than Mercer and lost to the Bears. They are naturally slotted behind them.

VMI and ETSU are clearly the two worst teams. They are placed where they should be.

The only potential gripe I see is that UTC is picked ahead of Mercer. Admittedly, that is not where I would put them, but I do not think there is some deep disrespect for the Mercer program. Other than that, I think there's a pretty strong argument for every team to be placed where they are.

Besides, if we assume that the votes are assigned a point total as you suggest, the results largely comport with the feeling of many on the state of the SoCon going into 2018: (1) Samford is a narrow front runner, (2) the middle of the pack is dense and somewhat interchangeable, and (3) VMI is the worst team.

If Mercer were ranked 4th or even 5th, I wouldn’t have too much to say ...but let’s look at a few things...I can make a STRONG case they they should be ranked 3rd.

You mentioned Woffy & VMI losing a bunch of Players...and you are right, which doesn’t even consider that Woffy lost one of the most experienced & successful Coaches in the history of the SoCon along with most of their solid, experienced Coaching Staff, that were replaced with some VERY lightly experienced Coaches with hardly any real accomplishments to point to on their 1/2 page resumes. Wofford, though they do have some talented Players returning, must, logically, drop in the Pre-season rankings. Well, how far?...below a Team that beat them last year and is returning all of their O and a good portion of their D. Yep, that makes sense. Done, Woffy is below Samford. How about we drop them below a Team that is also returning almost all of their D and a good portion of their O AND lost to Woffy by only 1 point in the regular season last year? Makes sense...So we should drop Woffy below Furman, right? Good...now READ THE PREVIOUS SENTENCE AGAIN CAREFULLY. Do you see it? If you logically drop Woffy below Furman, you have to drop them below Mercer too. You HAVE to! Is that low enough for Wofford...#4? Maybe, maybe not, but parsing the PorchYappers any further is outside the scope of my argument. Also, outside of the scope is even discussing VMI or ETSU (despite Mercer’s anamolous result against them last year).

But, you mentioned WCU finishing ahead of Mercer last year and neglected to include them in your list of teams that lost a lot, which, by your omission, de facto places them in your list of Teams that “return most of their core players.” That’s just not true. They lost one of their greatest RB/Return men in the history of their program (total of 166 yards/game lost), along with their Top 2 WR’s (133 yards / game lost) and most of their not-that-great Defense (10 of their top 12 Tacklers) Oh, they also lost to Mercer last year...and the year before that...and took their 1st lead of the game with about 20 seconds remaining the year before that. There’s just nothing there that should put WCU in front of Mercer in the preseason rankings...nothing.

I’ll touch on Chatt since they were, somehow ranked ahead of Mercer...1) Mercer thumped Chatt last year 2) Chatt has no proven QB anywhere within 50 miles of campus 3) Mercer THUMPED Chatt last year.

...and screw the bellhops; also not worth my time discussing.

Rankings should be:
1) Samford
2) Furman
3) Mercer
4) Woffy (maybe)
5 or 6...don’t care which) Chatt & WCU
7 or 8...don’t care which) ETSU & bellhops
9) VMI

#3 & #4 are debatable, even though I’m right & Mercer should be #3...but the rest of it, really, is just common Football sense.

Last Edit: Jul 26, 2018 0:55:28 GMT -5 by FUBeAR

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For he today that sheds his blood with me, shall be my brother.

FUBeAR
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SoCon Football Coaches ‘dis’ Mercer Jul 26, 2018 8:10:30 GMT -5

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Post by FUBeAR on Jul 26, 2018 8:10:30 GMT -5

Jul 25, 2018 21:36:06 GMT -5 jackal said:

I don't think the logic is that complicated. Samford, Wofford, and Furman...beat Mercer. I see no cause to be perturbed about being slotted behind them.

BTW...

I’m assuming if you, yourself, ‘buy’ this logic your espousing above, then you can passionately argue that Wofford should be ranked ahead of Furman, right? And not just as a debate exercise, but that you really, truly believe it. I mean Wofford beat Furman twice last year, finished ahead of Furman in the standings, & beat the Paladins by 3 scores in their most recent meeting.

But...you DON’T believe that, so don’t even try. And if the logic doesn’t work for Furman vs. Woffy, then it surely doesn’t work for Mercer vs. Woffy either!

NOTE: This is ONLY a criticism of Jackal pitching ‘logic’ that he doesn’t truly ascribe to. This is NOT a criticism of Furman, nor saying that FUBeAR thinks Woffy should be ranked ahead of Furman. They shouldn’t.

Last Edit: Jul 26, 2018 8:17:22 GMT -5 by FUBeAR

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he today that sheds his blood with me, shall be my brother.

jackal
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SoCon Football Coaches ‘dis’ Mercer Jul 26, 2018 11:02:38 GMT -5

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Post by jackal on Jul 26, 2018 11:02:38 GMT -5

Jul 26, 2018 8:10:30 GMT -5 FUBeAR said:

Jul 25, 2018 21:36:06 GMT -5 jackal said:

I don't think the logic is that complicated. Samford, Wofford, and Furman...beat Mercer. I see no cause to be perturbed about being slotted behind them.

BTW...

I’m assuming if you, yourself, ‘buy’ this logic your espousing above, then you can passionately argue that Wofford should be ranked ahead of Furman, right? And not just as a debate exercise, but that you really, truly believe it. I mean Wofford beat Furman twice last year, finished ahead of Furman in the standings, & beat the Paladins by 3 scores in their most recent meeting.

But...you DON’T believe that, so don’t even try. And if the logic doesn’t work for Furman vs. Woffy, then it surely doesn’t work for Mercer vs. Woffy either!

NOTE: This is ONLY a criticism of Jackal pitching ‘logic’ that he doesn’t truly ascribe to. This is NOT a criticism of Furman, nor saying that FUBeAR thinks Woffy should be ranked ahead of Furman. They shouldn’t.

The coaches put Furman behind Wofford. So, I am not sure I understand your point.

While I do not think that Furman will finish the season behind Wofford, I do understand the rationale for putting them ahead of them in the preseason.

Last Edit: Jul 26, 2018 11:03:40 GMT -5 by jackal

FUBeAR
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SoCon Football Coaches ‘dis’ Mercer Jul 26, 2018 12:07:30 GMT -5 via mobile

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Post by FUBeAR on Jul 26, 2018 12:07:30 GMT -5

Jul 26, 2018 11:02:38 GMT -5 jackal said:

Jul 26, 2018 8:10:30 GMT -5 FUBeAR said:

BTW...

I’m assuming if you, yourself, ‘buy’ this logic your espousing above, then you can passionately argue that Wofford should be ranked ahead of Furman, right? And not just as a debate exercise, but that you really, truly believe it. I mean Wofford beat Furman twice last year, finished ahead of Furman in the standings, & beat the Paladins by 3 scores in their most recent meeting.

But...you DON’T believe that, so don’t even try. And if the logic doesn’t work for Furman vs. Woffy, then it surely doesn’t work for Mercer vs. Woffy either!

NOTE: This is ONLY a criticism of Jackal pitching ‘logic’ that he doesn’t truly ascribe to. This is NOT a criticism of Furman, nor saying that FUBeAR thinks Woffy should be ranked ahead of Furman. They shouldn’t.

The coaches put Furman behind Wofford. So, I am not sure I understand your point.

While I do not think that Furman will finish the season behind Wofford, I do understand the rationale for putting them ahead of them in the preseason.

Yeah, OK...I thought the Coaches had also put FU ahead of Woffy (as they should have) as the Media did. So, I suppose if you are OK with that, then you would also be OK with them being ahead of Mercer. Perhaps, the truth is that the Coaches are ‘over-respecting’ Woffy, but there’s still the issue of them voting WCU & Chatt ahead of Mercer...which makes no sense.

So...now that you have further illumination around just how much WCU lost from last season as well as their recent lack of success vs. Mercer, would you still contend that “...it’s no great surprise that they are...” ranked ahead of Mercer?

Here’s what I think about the Cantamounts. They have 1 extremely dynamic, but fragile (in several ways) Player on Offense playing a position where fragility is a huge downside risk. They have a heavily experienced (3 R-Sr Starters), though not really very good (or mobile) O-Line which is overrated primarily because of their ‘years of service.’ They have 1 very good Safety and they (fortunately) have an excellent Punter. Beyond that, who knows what they have, but there’s no way you can, thoughtfully & logically, look at their returnees & recent record vis a vis Mercer & say, “Yep, Catamounts are the better Team.” By the way, they did receive 1 2nd place vote, worth 7 points, which went a long way toward their #4 ranking. Dollars to doughnuts, that vote came from Samford’s Coach Hatcher, who got whipped by them in 2017. And Chatt, who also beat Sammy, got 1 3rd Place Vote. I bet that one came in from Homewood as well.

Anyway... I think you asked about vote totals. Here’s what that good bellhop fan ciphered out...

Samford: 7-1st, 1-2nd
Wofford: 1-1st (Hatcher, since Sammy beat them?), 4-2nd, 2-3rd, 1-4th (at least 1 Coach gets it)
Furman: 1-1st (Conklin; same reason as Hatcher for Woffy?), 3-2nd, 3-3rd, 1-4th (Hatcher?)
WCU: 1-2nd, 1-3rd, 4-4th, 1-5th, 1-7th
Chatt: 1-3rd, 2-4th, 3-5th, 2-6th
Mercer: 1-3rd, 1-4th, 3-5th, 3-6th
CIT: 1-3rd, 2-5th, 4-6th, 1-7th
ETSU: 7-7th, 1-8th
VMI: 8-8th

Last Edit: Jul 26, 2018 12:49:59 GMT -5 by FUBeAR

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For he today that sheds his blood with me, shall be my brother.

jackal
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SoCon Football Coaches ‘dis’ Mercer Jul 26, 2018 14:51:51 GMT -5

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Post by jackal on Jul 26, 2018 14:51:51 GMT -5

I mean, I don't see the hard call on WCU. The Catamounts finished with 7 wins. Mercer had 5. The Cats had the most impressive conference win of the two by beating Samford.

I can see an argument for putting Mercer ahead of WCU, but it makes complete sense why they aren't.

FUBeAR
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SoCon Football Coaches ‘dis’ Mercer Jul 26, 2018 18:03:09 GMT -5 via mobile

Quote

Post by FUBeAR on Jul 26, 2018 18:03:09 GMT -5

Jul 26, 2018 14:51:51 GMT -5 jackal said:

I mean, I don't see the hard call on WCU. The Catamounts finished with 7 wins. Mercer had 5. The Cats had the most impressive conference win of the two by beating Samford.

I can see an argument for putting Mercer ahead of WCU, but it makes complete sense why they aren't.

Doesn’t.

In a 2017 post-Season POLL, a reasonable argument could be made either way with Mercer’s Head-to-Head in the Final Conference game @ WCU carrying the heaviest weight (by far) & standings + WCU beating Sammy providing some measure of balance on the other side of the argument.

But...this is NOT a 2017 Post-Season Poll. It is the 2018 Pre-Season Poll, which should include historical points of reference, such as those mentioned above AND include...
1) an assessment of Players Returning & Players Lost
2A) an assessment of Roster depth & how such depth is positioned to replace lost Players
2B) an assessment of any Coaching or other off-season changes
3) an assessment of talent levels of lesser-known Players in the 2 most recent Recruiting classes who may ‘show up’ & make an impact in The upcoming Season.

..,in that priority order with much heavier weighting at the top of that list.

WCU lost 300 yards of Offense in their BY FAR Top RB & BY FAR Top 2 WR’s & essentially ALL of their Defense. Mercer returns most of their Offense & almost all of their Defense. Even if you would have (erroneously) given WCU the nod over Mercer in your 2017 Post-Season Poll, with those massive losses in Cullowhee, you just can’t, reasonably rank them ahead of Mercer in your 2018 Pre-Season Poll. It’s just SILLY!

As SILLY as this...

Last Edit: Jul 26, 2018 22:00:52 GMT -5 by FUBeAR

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he today that sheds his blood with me, shall be my brother.

MUfan Mercer Bear Posts: 320	SoCon Football Coaches ‘dis’ Mercer Jul 26, 2018 19:33:00 GMT -5 via mobile FUBeAR likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by MUfan on Jul 26, 2018 19:33:00 GMT -5 These aren't the final standings, right? They are still going to play the games, right?

jackal
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SoCon Football Coaches ‘dis’ Mercer Jul 26, 2018 20:05:33 GMT -5

Quote

Post by jackal on Jul 26, 2018 20:05:33 GMT -5

Jul 26, 2018 18:03:09 GMT -5 FUBeAR said:

Jul 26, 2018 14:51:51 GMT -5 jackal said:

I mean, I don't see the hard call on WCU. The Catamounts finished with 7 wins. Mercer had 5. The Cats had the most impressive conference win of the two by beating Samford.

I can see an argument for putting Mercer ahead of WCU, but it makes complete sense why they aren't.

Doesn’t.

In a 2017 post-Season POLL, a reasonable argument could be made either way with Mercer’s Head-to-Head in the Final Conference game @ WCU carrying the heaviest weight (by far) & standings + WCU beating Sammy providing some measure of balance on the other side of the argument.

But...this is NOT a 2017 Post-Season Poll. It is the 2018 Pre-Season Poll, which should include historical points of reference, such as those mentioned above AND include...
1) an assessment of Players Returning & Players Lost
2A) an assessment of Roster depth & how such depth is positioned to replace lost Players
2B) an assessment of any Coaching or other off-season changes
3) an assessment of talent levels of lesser-known Players in the 2 most recent Recruiting classes who may ‘show up’ & make an impact in The upcoming Season.

..,in that priority order with much heavier weighting at the top of that list.

WCU lost 300 yards of Offense in their BY FAR Top RB & BY FAR Top 2 WR’s & essentially ALL of their Defense. Mercer returns most of their Offense & almost all of their Defense. Even if you would have (erroneously) given WCU the nod over Mercer in your 2017 Post-Season Poll, with those massive losses in Cullowhee, you just can’t, reasonably rank them ahead of Mercer in your 2018 Pre-Season Poll. It’s just SILLY!

As SILLY as this...

m.youtube.com/watch?v=IqhlQfXUk7w

And there is an equally valid argument that WCU beat more teams than Mercer. They lost some players, but every team loses some players. They return arguably the best offensive player not named Hodges. Good QBs can carry teams at this level.

Besides, if Mercer wants more preseason respect, they need to win more games. It’s not complicated. In years that Furman had good seasons, the next year’s preseason polls reflected it. In years they had bad seasons, same. Mercer has been pretty much a .500 team every season. The preseason polls reflect a middle of the pack team.

FUBeAR
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SoCon Football Coaches ‘dis’ Mercer Jul 26, 2018 20:11:24 GMT -5

Quote

Post by FUBeAR on Jul 26, 2018 20:11:24 GMT -5

Jul 26, 2018 19:33:00 GMT -5 MUfan said:

These aren't the final standings, right?
They are still going to play the games, right?

Yes - Jackal & FUBeAR are still going to argue about every game (except one). No need to fret MUfan. We’ll be there to make it exciting for you.

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he today that sheds his blood with me, shall be my brother.

FUBeAR
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SoCon Football Coaches ‘dis’ Mercer Jul 26, 2018 21:48:07 GMT -5

Quote

Post by FUBeAR on Jul 26, 2018 21:48:07 GMT -5

Jul 26, 2018 20:05:33 GMT -5 jackal said:

Jul 26, 2018 18:03:09 GMT -5 FUBeAR said:

Doesn’t.

In a 2017 post-Season POLL, a reasonable argument could be made either way with Mercer’s Head-to-Head in the Final Conference game @ WCU carrying the heaviest weight (by far) & standings + WCU beating Sammy providing some measure of balance on the other side of the argument.

But...this is NOT a 2017 Post-Season Poll. It is the 2018 Pre-Season Poll, which should include historical points of reference, such as those mentioned above AND include...
1) an assessment of Players Returning & Players Lost
2A) an assessment of Roster depth & how such depth is positioned to replace lost Players
2B) an assessment of any Coaching or other off-season changes
3) an assessment of talent levels of lesser-known Players in the 2 most recent Recruiting classes who may ‘show up’ & make an impact in The upcoming Season.

..,in that priority order with much heavier weighting at the top of that list.

WCU lost 300 yards of Offense in their BY FAR Top RB & BY FAR Top 2 WR’s & essentially ALL of their Defense. Mercer returns most of their Offense & almost all of their Defense. Even if you would have (erroneously) given WCU the nod over Mercer in your 2017 Post-Season Poll, with those massive losses in Cullowhee, you just can’t, reasonably rank them ahead of Mercer in your 2018 Pre-Season Poll. It’s just SILLY!

As SILLY as this...

m.youtube.com/watch?v=IqhlQfXUk7w

1) WCU...lost some players, but every team loses some players.
2) They return arguably the best offensive player not named Hodges.
3) Good QBs can carry teams at this level.

1) That does it, Jackal. You are getting a Chart/Table!

	2017	2017		Off.	Stats	Lost		\|	2017	Total	Tackles		Def.	Stats	Lost
TEAM	RUSH	PASS	Start Lost	QB	RB	WR	OL	\|	DL	LB	DB	Start Lost	DEF	DL	LB	DB	Total Start Lost
ETSU	71	202	2.1	0%	39%	20%	18%	\|	20%	46%	34%	2.1	14%	0%	4%	34%	4.2
Sam	80	333	0.6	0%	17%	8%	3%	\|	29%	40%	31%	5.3	49/5	25%	64%	50%	5.9
Mer	143	189	3.8	0%	22%	36%	42%	\|	15%	44%	40%	3.1	21%	27%	39%	0%	6.9
Cit	295	95	2.3	44%	33%	32%	0%	\|	18%	38%	44%	5.6	45%	27%	42%	56%	7.9
Fur	226	198	5.9	96%	39%	49%	40%	\|	21%	44%	35%	2.2	22%	0%	46%	4%	8.1
FCS	152	209	4.0	31%	31%	35%	35%	\|	23%	36%	41%	4.5	37%	37%	37%	36%	8.5
Chat	78	190	5.1	1%	77%	43%	33%	\|	30%	37%	33%	4.3	37%	34%	47%	30%	9.4
VMI	82	137	3.6	46%	50%	15%	47%	\|	19%	47%	34%	6.0	56%	21%	87%	33%	9.6
Wof	245	103	6.0	82%	24%	36%	68%	\|	18%	42%	40%	5.0	37%	39%	52%	21%	11.0
WCU	231	210	3.6	9%	43%	72%	17%	\|	17%	42%	41%	7.6	56%	38%	83%	36%	11.2

WCU didn't just lose "some players." They lost more Starters than any other SoCon Team, including Woffy & VMI, who you previously 'called out' for losing a lot of Players. They lost 2x and 3x, in most cases, the Offensive and Defensive production that Mercer did...oh, and you remember that Mercer beat them the last 2 years, right? Actually, the best argument you can possibly make for WCU being picked ahead of Mercer is that MAYBE the new Players they throw out there will be better than the ones who Mercer whipped the past 2 seasons. Otherwise, all you have is a nebulous and partial HISTORICAL argument, which completely ignores the most important historical argument - Mercer whipped the Cats Head-to-Head the 2 most recent times they have faced off. I'm done with this. If you refuse to acknowledge the overwhelming evidence that it's ludicrous to pick WCU ahead of Mercer this pre-season, then you're just being a horse's hindquarters.

2) Yep, their QB is talented & dynamic. He has also benefited mightily from the respect that Defenses HAD to give to Detrez Newsome and those 2 burners that would go get the Football on the outside. All 3 of those guys won't be suiting up for WCU this year and that is going to affect the way Teams defend WCU. If they prove they have another Detrez Newsome (they don't) and 2 outside guys that are as good as those 2 were (they don't), then maybe that QB can continue to exploit the way Teams have been forced to deploy their D's. Well, he can exploit them...assuming he's on the field. I know he has missed the 1st quarter of the Mercer game in 2016 for disciplinary reasons and I believe he was held out of some or all of Spring Practice due to Academics issues - some kind of issue - don't recall exactly. We've seen what can happen at Chatt and Montana State when a QB doesn't take care of his books bidness. May not be an issue at all for WCU this year, but I don't think that possibility should be ignored when ranking WCU. Oh, and I didn't mention he's about 6-3 and weighs about 150 pounds...and he really likes to run the ball hard...which would normally be a positive thing. Not so much in this case. I've seen him get ROCKED and I've seen him leave games after taking shots. You should know. He only played a little over a quarter against Furman and did not return after this play: W 3-6 W41 Tyrie Adams sacked for loss of 5 yards to the WCU36 (Dillon Vann). He also left the UNC game before halftime and never returned. This was his final play: W 3-7 W48 Tyrie Adams sideline pass incomplete to T. Robinson, QB hurry by Wolfolk, M. I'm guessing Mr. Wolfolk had some 'follow-through' on that "hurry" and WCU's Sr. backup had to finish that game also. He's not there to finish games this year. If Adams does 'go down' from injury, disciplinary reasons, or academics, his replacement will have never thrown a pass in a college game; will, at the most, have a total career stat line of 1 rush for 5 yards. It's either that guy (a R-JR) or a choice of 2 R-FR or 2 True FR holding the keys to the 2018 season for WCU. Sounds good, huh?

Without Newsome back there, I bet the WCU QB will see a lot of SPY's on him this year as soon as he takes off. He might want to ask his predecessor how he felt when he took off a few times and Mercer's Tripp Patterson (his Daddy, Verdell, was a Paladin who wore #54, so you know he's a bada$$!!!) was SPYing on him. My prediction for Mr. Adams' 2018 season?...Well, I'll let Clubber Lang do my talking...

3) No they can't. Surely you don't believe that ish. Tracy Ham was the closest thing that I've seen to being able to do that, but he had a very good O-Line. And don't throw Jayson Foster at me. IIRC, GaSou was no great shakes when he was QB...not as AWFUL as they are now, but not anything specials. And Adams is very good, but he's not Tracy Ham or even Jayson Foster. Not by a long shot. An O-Line, on the other hand CAN carry an Offense, but I've already expressed my opinion on WCU's O-Line....they have a wealth of experience! [FULL STOP]

Last Edit: Jul 27, 2018 6:48:37 GMT -5 by FUBeAR

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he today that sheds his blood with me, shall be my brother.

wcugrad95
Penfield Bear

Posts: 57

SoCon Football Coaches ‘dis’ Mercer Aug 13, 2018 21:25:44 GMT -5

Quote

Post by wcugrad95 on Aug 13, 2018 21:25:44 GMT -5

Since WCU keeps showing up in this thread so much by a bunch of non-Catamounts, I thought I would chime in.

Saying that we lost most of our defense to me is not a huge issue. The defense we had for the most part was the reason we "only" won 7 games instead of 9 - a couple of stops against Wofford and Mercer and we are co-champs and in the playoffs. But like FUBEAR says, an L is an L. In Tillman we return a guy who should be All-SoCon again, and I think stands to be drafted and capable of playing at the next level. If any of you remember our defense from 2 seasons ago (when we won 2 games), if you are being honest you would concede we were better last season in John Wiley's debut as our DC - and I am hopeful we will see similar if not better gains in his second year running the defense as we have added (or moved) some guys around who better fit his 3-4 scheme.

On offense, no doubt there are big shoes to fill in replacing Newsome at RB (he really didn't return kicks last season much) and Robinson and Hill at WR. Adams is going to continue to be a nightmare for defenses, and with 4 RS-Seniors anchoring the line along with a Sophomore who got significant playing time, I expect our line to be a strength. FUBEAR says over-rated just because of age, but most of these rankings and publications have us with 3 or 4 (if you include TE) O-lineman showing up on the 1st and 2nd team pre-season rosters. As for RB, Newsome was hampered for quite a bit of the season (wasn't the same after the Samford game when he hurt his shoulder). He sat out 2 games completely, and in those games Holloway ran for over 100 yards and 2 TDs (7 TDs total in 2017) against UTC and Spencer ran for 139 yards and 4 TDs (6 TDs in total) against ETSU. Oh - and Connell Young played WR last year, but was an absolute STUD RB in high school and it looks like he is going to get lots of carries out of the backfield while we can still put him in the slot. I am not suggesting any of them will be Detrez Newsome, but I think the depth and diversity we have there is pretty good (Holloway is a banger, Spencer is a shifty runner with lots of speed, and Young is a little of both). For perspective, Adams (746), Holloway (444), and Spencer (300) means we return almost 1500 yards rushing and 15 rushing TDs even with the loss of Newsome's 1100 yards and 9 TDs.

It is the pre-season, and we are all excited about the prospects and are going to defend and maybe even over-value what we have. I think Jackal's comment about the consensus being Samford at the top (because of all they return), VMI at the bottom, and then it is like throwing darts for the order of the remaining teams. Adams could be all-world and average 400 yards of offense and WCU could win 9 or 10 games. Or he could go down in week 1 and we could go winless. Time will tell - the good news is in the SoCon we all play each other and it will be figured out on the field.

Last Edit: Aug 13, 2018 21:43:53 GMT -5 by wcugrad95

MU Bear Down

SoCon Football Coaches ‘dis’ Mercer

Post by FUBeAR on Jul 25, 2018 10:12:48 GMT -5

Post by Guest on Jul 25, 2018 14:19:48 GMT -5

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Post by jackal on Jul 25, 2018 21:36:06 GMT -5

Post by FUBeAR on Jul 26, 2018 0:41:19 GMT -5

Post by FUBeAR on Jul 26, 2018 8:10:30 GMT -5

Post by jackal on Jul 26, 2018 11:02:38 GMT -5

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Post by jackal on Jul 26, 2018 14:51:51 GMT -5

Post by FUBeAR on Jul 26, 2018 18:03:09 GMT -5

Post by MUfan on Jul 26, 2018 19:33:00 GMT -5

Post by jackal on Jul 26, 2018 20:05:33 GMT -5

Post by FUBeAR on Jul 26, 2018 20:11:24 GMT -5

Post by FUBeAR on Jul 26, 2018 21:48:07 GMT -5

Post by wcugrad95 on Aug 13, 2018 21:25:44 GMT -5

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