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Post by BearDownMU on Oct 27, 2015 15:40:05 GMT -5
I agree with chez23 on expectations to win now, because we can, what program out the socon since Ga.Southern has been a elite FCS program? GSU won from day 1 and never looked back,Mercer has similiar factors going for it, true our academics benchmarks are higher, however no one expected 2014 to be such a competitive year right out the gate therefore 2015 expectations should not be lower, other teams in the SOCON knows with one more class of players on this roster next year the hardware is coming SOONER not later, with the Ga HS talent pipeline.Our model should be Statesboro not UTC. Really? Georgia Southern should be the model? So something that was done only once ever in the history of Division I college football, and done in the 1980's (when they weren't even in the SoCon) is where we should be and, if not, we should fire the staff? That isn't realistic in the least. Also, what SoCon teams have been elite? Well, Furman and App State have National titles and multiple trips to the Championship game.
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Post by jackal on Oct 27, 2015 16:21:49 GMT -5
I agree with chez23 on expectations to win now, because we can, what program out the socon since Ga.Southern has been a elite FCS program? GSU won from day 1 and never looked back,Mercer has similiar factors going for it, true our academics benchmarks are higher, however no one expected 2014 to be such a competitive year right out the gate therefore 2015 expectations should not be lower, other teams in the SOCON knows with one more class of players on this roster next year the hardware is coming SOONER not later, with the Ga HS talent pipeline.Our model should be Statesboro not UTC. Really? Georgia Southern should be the model? So something that was done only once ever in the history of Division I college football, and done in the 1980's (when they weren't even in the SoCon) is where we should be and, if not, we should fire the staff? That isn't realistic in the least. Also, what SoCon teams have been elite? Well, Furman and App State have National titles and multiple trips to the Championship game. The original comments were posted by someone who must have watched SoCon football for a season and a half.
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Post by 95sacks on Oct 27, 2015 19:18:54 GMT -5
Correction 2 full season of SOCON football, and yes Ga Southern sir, 6 national titles higher win %( and still relevant in 2015) Furman 1 in 1988 which no one in Ga. cares to remember,( first season 1889) that's your view and I have mine.
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Post by BearDownMU on Oct 27, 2015 19:28:47 GMT -5
It's a view all right. Just not very grounded in reality.
Also, I think FUBeAR and Jackal might beg to differ on GA people remembering Furman NAtional Championships. lol
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Post by FUBeAR on Oct 27, 2015 20:07:33 GMT -5
Correction 2 full season of SOCON football, and yes Ga Southern sir, 6 national titles higher win %( and still relevant in 2015) Furman 1 in 1988 which no one in Ga. cares to remember,( first season 1889) that's your view and I have mine. Correction: 1.42857 (decimal repeating) seasons of SoCon Football (if you're talking about since Mercer started playing in the SoCon) My SoCon playing, coaching, and watching has been 37.42857 (decimal repeating) seasons, FWIW. I am one and I am in GA. I care to remember an amazing QB, Tracy Ham, leading GaSou to a last second FCS National Championship 44-42 win over FU and their amazing QB, Bobby Lamb, in 1985. I care to remember FU returning the favor and sealing the 1988 FCS National Championship 17-12 over GaSou with a late-game pick by LB Jeff Blankenship. I care to remember FU playing Montana in the 2001 FCS National Championship game with, Peyton Award Winner, RB, Louis Ivory, who had gained 301 yds against GaSou a season earlier, almost completely hobbled by injury only gain 33 yards on 12 carries as FU, who defeated GaSou in the semi-finals, lose a close defensive struggle 13-6. I care very much to remember FU's SoCon Championships in 78, 80, 81, 82, and 83. I care to remember FU's record total of 13 SoCon Championships. I care to look forward to Mercer's 1st SoCon Championship, Playoff game(s), and 1st FCS National Championship. Now that GaSou has elected to ride the road to true irrelevance in the G5 Sloth Belt Conference, I don't give a rat's rear end about their football team nor their prior success in FCS. If they can take pride in playing a meaningless game against a 6-6 Toledo State Zips team in the Camellia Bowl in a chilly, most-likely rainy, Montgomery, AL in Early/Mid-December in a small, run-down stadium built in 1922, then I am going to let them do just that...without me noticing.
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Post by BearDownMU on Oct 27, 2015 20:24:46 GMT -5
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MU22
Baby Bear
Posts: 38
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Post by MU22 on Oct 27, 2015 21:16:51 GMT -5
Correction 2 full season of SOCON football, and yes Ga Southern sir, 6 national titles higher win %( and still relevant in 2015) Furman 1 in 1988 which no one in Ga. cares to remember,( first season 1889) that's your view and I have mine. Correction: 1.42857 (decimal repeating) seasons of SoCon Football (if you're talking about since Mercer started playing in the SoCon) My SoCon playing, coaching, and watching has been 37.42857 (decimal repeating) seasons, FWIW. I am one and I am in GA. I care to remember an amazing QB, Tracy Ham, leading GaSou to a last second FCS National Championship 44-42 win over FU and their amazing QB, Bobby Lamb, in 1985. I care to remember FU returning the favor and sealing the 1988 FCS National Championship 17-12 over GaSou with a late-game pick by LB Jeff Blankenship. I care to remember FU playing Montana in the 2001 FCS National Championship game with, Peyton Award Winner, RB, Louis Ivory, who had gained 301 yds against GaSou a season earlier, almost completely hobbled by injury only gain 33 yards on 12 carries as FU, who defeated GaSou in the semi-finals, lose a close defensive struggle 13-6. I care very much to remember FU's SoCon Championships in 78, 80, 81, 82, and 83. I care to remember FU's record total of 13 SoCon Championships. I care to look forward to Mercer's 1st SoCon Championship, Playoff game(s), and 1st FCS National Championship. Now that GaSou has elected to ride the road to true irrelevance in the G5 Sloth Belt Conference, I don't give a rat's rear end about their football team nor their prior success in FCS. If they can take pride in playing a meaningless game against a 6-6 Toledo State Zips team in the Camellia Bowl in a chilly, most-likely rainy, Montgomery, AL in Early/Mid-December in a small, run-down stadium built in 1922, then I am going to let them do just that...without me noticing. Easy now, no need to speak so ill of Georgia Southern The Eagles aren't a good model because as you previously mentioned the Eagles set the foundation as an independent, and found life in the SoCon somewhat more challenging, winning just two of their six national titles as SoCon members (1999, 2000) during their span of membership (1993-2013). Most would agree that for a program to have one coach the caliber of Erk Russell is usually a once-in-a lifetime proposition and that the accompanying 3 national championships (1985,1986 and 1989) was pretty much unheard of at that time. Tim Stowers won his title his inaugural season in 1990 with a slew of seniors who effectively over-rode their coach after a 1-3 start. Georgia Southern struck paydirt again with Paul Johnson but ever since 2001 the Eagle program has found a plane that is more reasonable than gaudy. Mercer has done everything about as perfect as they could so far, and that includes hiring Lamb when it became clear he was going to be available. I know it is fun for Furman fans to bash Bobby and lay their own decade long drought of dominant teams at his feet, but he's been gone a while now and all he has done is come into a new program, design it from the ground up and exceed expectations. Mercer and Furman have a lot in common as institutions, the future advantage I see that Mercer has however is two-fold. They are 100% committed and took immediate advantage in building state of the art facilities, where Furman had slid in relation to the rest of the league. Recruits notice that stuff. Second, IMO while both Mercer and Furman attract similarly talented students there is a distinctly different air on the Macon campus at tying the campus experience into athletics that has grown stale in Greenville. A lot of that is due to winning. Now, as the Bears have struggled of late it has sort of started to manifest itself in attendance ... on a nice weather day, homecoming crowd was under 10K. Only 1 of the 4 FBS schools in the state even had a game on the same Saturday (Georgia Tech). So yes, it is perhaps regrettable that Mercer has lost a few games that perhaps they could have or even should have won, but the reality is they are on pace or ahead of where they "should" be. Today's SoCon isn't quite the meatgrinder it was from say 1997-2007, but it is a competitive league within its own membership. Mercer cannot be judged at this point until they are fully 'staffed' with their scholarship allotment. For a better example of where Mercer "should" be, take a look at Wofford circa 1997 as they entered the league and see what 40 scholarships looks like in the W-L ledger. www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/active/w/wofford/1995-1999_yearly_results.phpThen take a peek at what they did in 2002 & 2003, once they realized they'd have to go all in on funding scholarships and they got their feet under them after a few years. I don't have 37 years of watching SoCon football under my resume, but do have 32 years worth of I-AA/FCS action as a yardstick. We'll be fine. Lamb was the right guy when he was hired, is the right guy now, and will be the right guy for some time. We should hope that a team like Georgia State doesn't come offering to triple his salary because they could do it in a heartbeat and the thing the Panthers need most is bonafide recruiting contacts in the Peach State.
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Post by chez23 on Oct 27, 2015 21:41:06 GMT -5
To add to this thread and a serious question: What is Lamb recruiting record? Is he a good recruiter?
MU22 you made a comment about how Mercer is trying to develop the campus experience and how winning has a lto to do with this. I agree winning always brings fans out and is a part of this conversation about the direction of the program which a big purpose is for the fans and culture MU is trying to create. Losing doesn't help , as you saw at Home Coming with not selling the place out. If Mercer beats WCU and Wofford, which they had their chance, then I would bet that Five Star would have been sold out against VMI. So one key point that may have been missed on this topic is winning creates campus excitement and builds a program and shows off to recruits the atmosphere MU can generate.... losing the way MU has hurts the development of not just football but the overall culture that MU wants to create....so again is this program headed in the right direction......attendance isn't and that has to be a big concern for MU.
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Post by bear38 on Oct 27, 2015 21:44:29 GMT -5
To add to this thread and a serious question: What is Lamb recruiting record? Is he a good recruiter? MU22 you made a comment about how Mercer is trying to develop the campus experience and how winning has a lto to do with this. I agree winning always brings fans out and is a part of this conversation about the direction of the program which a big purpose is for the fans and culture MU is trying to create. Losing doesn't help , as you saw at Home Coming with not selling the place out. If Mercer beats WCU and Wofford, which they had their chance, then I would bet that Five Star would have been sold out against VMI. So one key point that may have been missed on this topic is winning creates campus excitement and builds a program and shows off to recruits the atmosphere MU can generate.... losing the way MU has hurts the development of not just football but the overall culture that MU wants to create....so again is this program headed in the right direction......attendance isn't and that has to be a big concern for MU. WE WILL GET THERE! I PROMISE!
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Post by BearDownMU on Oct 27, 2015 21:51:30 GMT -5
Is Lamb a good recruiter? How many starters/stars are there on this team that came to Mercer with no promise of a scholarship?
And then, how is it Mercer is competitive in a premier conference 1 year after being able to give scholarships at all?
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Post by jackal on Oct 27, 2015 22:02:47 GMT -5
Correction: 1.42857 (decimal repeating) seasons of SoCon Football (if you're talking about since Mercer started playing in the SoCon) My SoCon playing, coaching, and watching has been 37.42857 (decimal repeating) seasons, FWIW. I am one and I am in GA. I care to remember an amazing QB, Tracy Ham, leading GaSou to a last second FCS National Championship 44-42 win over FU and their amazing QB, Bobby Lamb, in 1985. I care to remember FU returning the favor and sealing the 1988 FCS National Championship 17-12 over GaSou with a late-game pick by LB Jeff Blankenship. I care to remember FU playing Montana in the 2001 FCS National Championship game with, Peyton Award Winner, RB, Louis Ivory, who had gained 301 yds against GaSou a season earlier, almost completely hobbled by injury only gain 33 yards on 12 carries as FU, who defeated GaSou in the semi-finals, lose a close defensive struggle 13-6. I care very much to remember FU's SoCon Championships in 78, 80, 81, 82, and 83. I care to remember FU's record total of 13 SoCon Championships. I care to look forward to Mercer's 1st SoCon Championship, Playoff game(s), and 1st FCS National Championship. Now that GaSou has elected to ride the road to true irrelevance in the G5 Sloth Belt Conference, I don't give a rat's rear end about their football team nor their prior success in FCS. If they can take pride in playing a meaningless game against a 6-6 Toledo State Zips team in the Camellia Bowl in a chilly, most-likely rainy, Montgomery, AL in Early/Mid-December in a small, run-down stadium built in 1922, then I am going to let them do just that...without me noticing. Easy now, no need to speak so ill of Georgia Southern The Eagles aren't a good model because as you previously mentioned the Eagles set the foundation as an independent, and found life in the SoCon somewhat more challenging, winning just two of their six national titles as SoCon members (1999, 2000) during their span of membership (1993-2013). Most would agree that for a program to have one coach the caliber of Erk Russell is usually a once-in-a lifetime proposition and that the accompanying 3 national championships (1985,1986 and 1989) was pretty much unheard of at that time. Tim Stowers won his title his inaugural season in 1990 with a slew of seniors who effectively over-rode their coach after a 1-3 start. Georgia Southern struck paydirt again with Paul Johnson but ever since 2001 the Eagle program has found a plane that is more reasonable than gaudy. Mercer has done everything about as perfect as they could so far, and that includes hiring Lamb when it became clear he was going to be available. I know it is fun for Furman fans to bash Bobby and lay their own decade long drought of dominant teams at his feet, but he's been gone a while now and all he has done is come into a new program, design it from the ground up and exceed expectations. Mercer and Furman have a lot in common as institutions, the future advantage I see that Mercer has however is two-fold. They are 100% committed and took immediate advantage in building state of the art facilities, where Furman had slid in relation to the rest of the league. Recruits notice that stuff. Second, IMO while both Mercer and Furman attract similarly talented students there is a distinctly different air on the Macon campus at tying the campus experience into athletics that has grown stale in Greenville. A lot of that is due to winning. Now, as the Bears have struggled of late it has sort of started to manifest itself in attendance ... on a nice weather day, homecoming crowd was under 10K. Only 1 of the 4 FBS schools in the state even had a game on the same Saturday (Georgia Tech). So yes, it is perhaps regrettable that Mercer has lost a few games that perhaps they could have or even should have won, but the reality is they are on pace or ahead of where they "should" be. Today's SoCon isn't quite the meatgrinder it was from say 1997-2007, but it is a competitive league within its own membership. Mercer cannot be judged at this point until they are fully 'staffed' with their scholarship allotment. For a better example of where Mercer "should" be, take a look at Wofford circa 1997 as they entered the league and see what 40 scholarships looks like in the W-L ledger. www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/active/w/wofford/1995-1999_yearly_results.phpThen take a peek at what they did in 2002 & 2003, once they realized they'd have to go all in on funding scholarships and they got their feet under them after a few years. I don't have 37 years of watching SoCon football under my resume, but do have 32 years worth of I-AA/FCS action as a yardstick. We'll be fine. Lamb was the right guy when he was hired, is the right guy now, and will be the right guy for some time. We should hope that a team like Georgia State doesn't come offering to triple his salary because they could do it in a heartbeat and the thing the Panthers need most is bonafide recruiting contacts in the Peach State. I suppose I feel compelled to respond. (1) I attended both Furman and Mercer. I have little interest in getting into a message board debate over who does what. Mercer does some things better than Furman. Furman does things better than Mercer. The student bodies are similar in some ways and significantly different in many ways. (2) I do not think Furman fans love to bash Bobby Lamb. Most Furman fans like Bobby Lamb personally. The relationship by the end of its tenure had run its course. Most folks are appreciative of the time and effort he gave to the university. I think most are also of the opinion that it was just time for a change. (3) I do not think athletics at Furman are "stale." I suppose that is just sort of an objective assessment, but while the football team has hit a bit of a rough patch, the remaining athletic programs are still strong and have remained so for quite some time. (4) Attendance is difficult to measure. College football attendance is decreasing everywhere. Furman has been hit. Mercer is starting to see some of their shine wear off as well. Furman did have a nice crowd Saturday (over 12k). So that was nice to see after two home games were played in the rain. To the general point, talk of replacing Lamb at this point would be disastrous for Mercer. Mercer is not entitled to win anything. Perhaps most Mercer fans were too used to winning the first few seasons that a rough patch makes it seem like the wheels are coming off. As I said in the preseason, Mercer could have a worse record and still improve in 2015.
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Post by jackal on Oct 27, 2015 22:04:34 GMT -5
Is Lamb a good recruiter? How many starters/stars are there on this team that came to Mercer with no promise of a scholarship? And then, how is it Mercer is competitive in a premier conference 1 year after being able to give scholarships at all? A few years ago Furman had 9 players in NFL training camps, all of whom were recruited by Lamb. So, I certainly think he qualifies as a good recruiter. I have my own reservations about the depth of some of the classes, but no question he brought in talented players.
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Post by FUBeAR on Oct 27, 2015 22:41:45 GMT -5
Correction: 1.42857 (decimal repeating) seasons of SoCon Football (if you're talking about since Mercer started playing in the SoCon) My SoCon playing, coaching, and watching has been 37.42857 (decimal repeating) seasons, FWIW. I am one and I am in GA. I care to remember an amazing QB, Tracy Ham, leading GaSou to a last second FCS National Championship 44-42 win over FU and their amazing QB, Bobby Lamb, in 1985. I care to remember FU returning the favor and sealing the 1988 FCS National Championship 17-12 over GaSou with a late-game pick by LB Jeff Blankenship. I care to remember FU playing Montana in the 2001 FCS National Championship game with, Peyton Award Winner, RB, Louis Ivory, who had gained 301 yds against GaSou a season earlier, almost completely hobbled by injury only gain 33 yards on 12 carries as FU, who defeated GaSou in the semi-finals, lose a close defensive struggle 13-6. I care very much to remember FU's SoCon Championships in 78, 80, 81, 82, and 83. I care to remember FU's record total of 13 SoCon Championships. I care to look forward to Mercer's 1st SoCon Championship, Playoff game(s), and 1st FCS National Championship. Now that GaSou has elected to ride the road to true irrelevance in the G5 Sloth Belt Conference, I don't give a rat's rear end about their football team nor their prior success in FCS. If they can take pride in playing a meaningless game against a 6-6 Toledo State Zips team in the Camellia Bowl in a chilly, most-likely rainy, Montgomery, AL in Early/Mid-December in a small, run-down stadium built in 1922, then I am going to let them do just that...without me noticing. Easy now, no need to speak so ill of Georgia Southern Your post is interesting, informative, and very well-written. Thanks for that. I would encourage you to re-read my prior post, however; and point to anything I said ill about GaSou. I praised one of their greatest players. I mentioned them gloriously playing in 2 fantastic & classic FCS National Championship Games as well as an FCS National Championship semi-final. Now, if you feel that speaking ill of the Scum Belch Conference and laying out the details of a very real (albeit with a mash-up name of their possible opponent) post-season possibility for GaSou is speaking ill of GaSou, then your issue is with the Administration of GaSou and the Sure Barf Conference; not with FUBeAR.
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Post by chez23 on Oct 28, 2015 15:34:39 GMT -5
MU is 1-9 is SOCON play....if they end up 1-13 then what..same old mind set and planning for 2016? Changes need to be made if they go 0-7 this year. Maybe not HC, but mayeb HC needs better assistance and a OC? or maybe HC moves on as well.....but if 1-13 heading into 2016 then I would beleive HC last year to make waves in the SOCON.
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Post by bear38 on Oct 28, 2015 17:16:55 GMT -5
MU is 1-9 is SOCON play....if they end up 1-13 then what..same old mind set and planning for 2016? Changes need to be made if they go 0-7 this year. Maybe not HC, but mayeb HC needs better assistance and a OC? or maybe HC moves on as well.....but if 1-13 heading into 2016 then I would beleive HC last year to make waves in the SOCON. I'm trying to understand your point, but....? Mercer has had 2 scholarship recruiting classes and about 1/2 of the last class is redshirted. So you are expecting what exactly with 1 1/2 of scholarship recruiting classes versus other SoCon teams with at least 4 and arguably 5 scholarship recruiting classes? I would agree that there have been some issues with play calling and issues with time out management, but until you can compare apples with apples, you are just barking up the wrong tree. And like the yipping little lap dog, you won't stop. I guess it is a free country and all that, but listen to some of the experience on this site and give it a break. Just the fact that Mercer has been in these games is an amazing testimony to the progress of Coach Lamb and the program. Once they have the same advantages of the other SoCon teams and are on equal footing, I think your issues (if they were still occurring) would have merit. But you're expecting Mercer to win with one hand tied behind its back. Just my two cents.
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