|
|
Post by chez23 on Sept 20, 2016 14:19:48 GMT -5
Also, it's worth noting when it comes to recruiting, that Mercer is going to have a different academic standard that doesn't apply to some other places. I was an Admissions Officer at the University. They do not make exceptions for athletes, unless something has changed since I worked there. That's just the reality. There will be kids that can go to some other schools in our conference that would not be admitted to Mercer academically. Then that is a problem if the commitment to football is as strong as we hear? I am all for great academics, but if they want to win and build a perennial championship program then MU may have to loosen the strings just a little bit. |
|
|
|
Post by chez23 on Sept 20, 2016 14:21:12 GMT -5
I've said this to our fan base quite often, but it is a highly competitive market. More competitive than many realize. Compared to today, 10 or 15 years ago there were (literally) hundreds of scholarship spots that did not exist. In those days, there were only four D1 football schools in Georgia (UGA, GT, Ga. Southern, and Savannah State). Now there are, what, 7? Mercer has a lot going for it that would be attractive to a recruit. Mercer's offerings, though, are largely similar to what Furman, Samford, Wofford, etc. can offer as well. One of the intricacies of the "new" SoCon and challenges going forward for each program is that there are several other programs in this conference that can offer a recruit similar things. You want good facilities, nice campus, great city, and good academics? Well, there's more than one option. It is not easy for schools like Mercer/Furman/Samford to recruit and easily change direction with the program. They cannot take just anyone. It becomes even more difficult when other conference teams are looking at (literally) the same athletes you are. It is virtually a zero sum game. A guy signs with Furman and he likely takes one out of the basket for Mercer, and vice versa. That's correct. Seven D1 schools. Mercer, UGA, GT, GaSou, Savannah State, Kennesaw State, and Georgia State. You led me directly to my point then....can BL be the difference maker in recruiting? |
|
|
|
Post by chez23 on Sept 20, 2016 14:24:05 GMT -5
So my question isn't lost in all the writing above. With more D1 schools now recruiting in GA then obviously the kids have more options. MU campus and facilities are a big plus....so they should have a decent edge there....but is BL the difference maker when it comes to recruiting?
|
|
|
|
Post by BearDownMU on Sept 20, 2016 14:29:05 GMT -5
Lol. It's not a problem. It's something to be proud of. Bill Underwood is as committed to athletics as I've seen from University leadership. But, first and foremost, Mercer is an institution of higher education. And, one that has just been moved from regional university status to national university status by US News and World Reports. As a degree holder, former letterman, donor, and member of the newly formed Mercer Letterman's Club, I will stop giving money if they relax admissions standards for athletes in the interest of trying to get a couple extra players. Not interested in anyone devaluing the reputation or value of my degree because someone is really good at a sport.
Furthermore, that kid isn't going to be eligible after a semester or two anyway, because if they can't get in on their own merit, they for sure aren't going to be able to succeed academically at Mercer. Not like there are a bunch of underwater basketweaving classes you can take for 4 years to stay eligible for sports.
It might make it harder to recruit, but ripping out the soul of the university in the hopes that it gets you a championship is not something I'm interested in.
Not that it can't be done without anyway. The aforementioned Furman is also a high achieving, private school with a darn good academic reputation. They managed to figure it out.
|
|
|
|
Post by BearDownMU on Sept 20, 2016 14:39:21 GMT -5
So my question isn't lost in all the writing above. With more D1 schools now recruiting in GA then obviously the kids have more options. MU campus and facilities are a big plus....so they should have a decent edge there....but is BL the difference maker when it comes to recruiting? Well, to this point the classes have been pretty good. He's been recruiting in Georgia for what 20 years? So that a big plus. His brother is one of the more well known and respected high school coaches in the state. So check there. And his family name in football and the state of Georgia is pretty darn good. We already mentioned his brother Hal, but his dad Ray was a legendary coach at Commerce High school for 20-some years and was named Coordinator of High School Relations for UGA after he was done coaching. Throw in his son Taylor Lamb, who is the current starting QB for App State and his nephew Tre Lamb, who was the starting QB at Tennessee Tech and currently the QB coach at Mercer. That's some pretty serious football DNA, but, more importantly, gives you good relationships all over the place. Now, the proof is in the pudding, as they say, but the resume seems pretty solid. lol. |
|
|
|
Post by chez23 on Sept 20, 2016 15:15:48 GMT -5
Lol. It's not a problem. It's something to be proud of. Bill Underwood is as committed to athletics as I've seen from University leadership. But, first and foremost, Mercer is an institution of higher education. And, one that has just been moved from regional university status to national university status by US News and World Reports. As a degree holder, former letterman, donor, and member of the newly formed Mercer Letterman's Club, I will stop giving money if they relax admissions standards for athletes in the interest of trying to get a couple extra players. Not interested in anyone devaluing the reputation or value of my degree because someone is really good at a sport. Furthermore, that kid isn't going to be eligible after a semester or two anyway, because if they can't get in on their own merit, they for sure aren't going to be able to succeed academically at Mercer. Not like there are a bunch of underwater basketweaving classes you can take for 4 years to stay eligible for sports. It might make it harder to recruit, but ripping out the soul of the university in the hopes that it gets you a championship is not something I'm interested in. Not that it can't be done without anyway. The aforementioned Furman is also a high achieving, private school with a darn good academic reputation. They managed to figure it out. I get what your saying....but I also believe that a winning program generates a lot of revenue for the University and actually improves the overall reputation. Exposure alone draws more potential students....more students more dollars. I am in no way advocating the MU all of a sudden abandons their character, but I think it can make some tweaks for the better of the entire university. More awareness of MU then your degree will also have more value. Winning in the classroom and on the field is a tricky tight rope....but it can be done. |
|
|
|
Post by chez23 on Sept 20, 2016 15:23:51 GMT -5
So my question isn't lost in all the writing above. With more D1 schools now recruiting in GA then obviously the kids have more options. MU campus and facilities are a big plus....so they should have a decent edge there....but is BL the difference maker when it comes to recruiting? Well, to this point the classes have been pretty good. He's been recruiting in Georgia for what 20 years? So that a big plus. His brother is one of the more well known and respected high school coaches in the state. So check there. And his family name in football and the state of Georgia is pretty darn good. We already mentioned his brother Hal, but his dad Ray was a legendary coach at Commerce High school for 20-some years and was named Coordinator of High School Relations for UGA after he was done coaching. Throw in his son Taylor Lamb, who is the current starting QB for App State and his nephew Tre Lamb, who was the starting QB at Tennessee Tech and currently the QB coach at Mercer. That's some pretty serious football DNA, but, more importantly, gives you good relationships all over the place. Now, the proof is in the pudding, as they say, but the resume seems pretty solid. lol. Does that longevity in one area have value these days? These millennials have no loyalty or care about tradition anymore....its a new world out and time are different. These kids today seem to want something different then the old style approach. Perfect example is PJ Fleck and W. Michigan. By the way it is great to see people jumping on this board. |
|
|
|
Post by jackal on Sept 20, 2016 15:30:21 GMT -5
So my question isn't lost in all the writing above. With more D1 schools now recruiting in GA then obviously the kids have more options. MU campus and facilities are a big plus....so they should have a decent edge there....but is BL the difference maker when it comes to recruiting? Mercer has a nice campus and facilities. They are not the only SoCon school with a nice campus and facilities. I don't see why that would be any distinct advantage for Mercer. Every kid is different, though. Look, Mercer got a good established coach in Bobby Lamb. They had a need and Lamb had a need. It worked out. He is a good recruiter. I've followed his entire career. You don't put as many guys in the NFL as he has that are without talent. |
|
|
|
Post by BearDownMU on Sept 20, 2016 15:30:33 GMT -5
Longevity certainly helps because your best friend in the recruiting process are the high school coaches. Certainly, you still have to "close the deal" with the kids, but I think most would agree the relationships with the coaches really matters.
|
|
|
|
Post by jackal on Sept 20, 2016 15:36:10 GMT -5
Lol. It's not a problem. It's something to be proud of. Bill Underwood is as committed to athletics as I've seen from University leadership. But, first and foremost, Mercer is an institution of higher education. And, one that has just been moved from regional university status to national university status by US News and World Reports. As a degree holder, former letterman, donor, and member of the newly formed Mercer Letterman's Club, I will stop giving money if they relax admissions standards for athletes in the interest of trying to get a couple extra players. Not interested in anyone devaluing the reputation or value of my degree because someone is really good at a sport. Furthermore, that kid isn't going to be eligible after a semester or two anyway, because if they can't get in on their own merit, they for sure aren't going to be able to succeed academically at Mercer. Not like there are a bunch of underwater basketweaving classes you can take for 4 years to stay eligible for sports. It might make it harder to recruit, but ripping out the soul of the university in the hopes that it gets you a championship is not something I'm interested in. Not that it can't be done without anyway. The aforementioned Furman is also a high achieving, private school with a darn good academic reputation. They managed to figure it out. I get what your saying....but I also believe that a winning program generates a lot of revenue for the University and actually improves the overall reputation. Exposure alone draws more potential students....more students more dollars. I am in no way advocating the MU all of a sudden abandons their character, but I think it can make some tweaks for the better of the entire university. More awareness of MU then your degree will also have more value. Winning in the classroom and on the field is a tricky tight rope....but it can be done. Mercer's already done this. They started the program with great fanfare. The scheduled a ton of home games. Made season tickets very affordable. Scheduled a lot of winnable games early on in the programs history, which is not a course a lot of other startups took. Heavy social media presence. They wanted buzz and exposure and got it. Just my opinion, but Mercer is now in the routine of playing a SoCon-type schedule that the other programs have been doing for years. I imagine it isn't easy to show up every week and play a really good team. Even in "favored" games, they are still playing a good team. This is SoCon football. Tight, hotly contested games, and a slug fest of a season. |
|
|
|
Post by BearDownMU on Sept 20, 2016 15:40:44 GMT -5
I get what your saying....but I also believe that a winning program generates a lot of revenue for the University and actually improves the overall reputation. Exposure alone draws more potential students....more students more dollars. I am in no way advocating the MU all of a sudden abandons their character, but I think it can make some tweaks for the better of the entire university. More awareness of MU then your degree will also have more value. Winning in the classroom and on the field is a tricky tight rope....but it can be done. Mercer's already done this. They started the program with great fanfare. The scheduled a ton of home games. Made season tickets very affordable. Scheduled a lot of winnable games early on in the programs history, which is not a course a lot of other startups took. Heavy social media presence. They wanted buzz and exposure and got it. Just my opinion, but Mercer is now in the routine of playing a SoCon-type schedule that the other programs have been doing for years. I imagine it isn't easy to show up every week and play a really good team. Even in "favored" games, they are still playing a good team. This is SoCon football. Tight, hotly contested games, and a slug fest of a season. I certainly don't have the historical knowledge that a Jackal or a FUBeAR have. I've really just been "into it" the last 4 years. But, outside of the fact that the SoCon is a very good conference, it also seems that all of a sudden there is a ton of parity. Quite literally, on any given Saturday, someone could jump up and beat someone else. Which also contributes to the grind of a full conference season. Seems like there were certain periods where a Furman, or an App State, or a GaSou would just tear through the conference. Or a couple of those teams would be battling it out at the top. To me, doesn't feel so much like that right now. |
|
|
|
Post by mercerfan on Sept 21, 2016 8:31:38 GMT -5
Speaking of parity, what about ETSU? They beat Kennesaw to open and Western Carolina last week.
|
|
|
|
Post by jackal on Sept 21, 2016 8:33:34 GMT -5
Mercer's already done this. They started the program with great fanfare. The scheduled a ton of home games. Made season tickets very affordable. Scheduled a lot of winnable games early on in the programs history, which is not a course a lot of other startups took. Heavy social media presence. They wanted buzz and exposure and got it. Just my opinion, but Mercer is now in the routine of playing a SoCon-type schedule that the other programs have been doing for years. I imagine it isn't easy to show up every week and play a really good team. Even in "favored" games, they are still playing a good team. This is SoCon football. Tight, hotly contested games, and a slug fest of a season. I certainly don't have the historical knowledge that a Jackal or a FUBeAR have. I've really just been "into it" the last 4 years. But, outside of the fact that the SoCon is a very good conference, it also seems that all of a sudden there is a ton of parity. Quite literally, on any given Saturday, someone could jump up and beat someone else. Which also contributes to the grind of a full conference season. Seems like there were certain periods where a Furman, or an App State, or a GaDou would just tear through the conference. Or a couple of those teams would be battling it out at the top. To me, doesn't feel so much like that right now. I started really following the conference probably in 2001, so time before that I would defer to FUBear. There is a lot of parity. My own personal opinion is that the conference was far more top heavy in the 2000s than it is now. I personally think that Furman/App State/Georgia Southern teams of those years would run UTC off the field. All three of those teams were legitimate national title contenders. Wofford, too, periodically would shoot up with a good team a really difficult to defend and disciplined offense. In those years, the SoCon would really come down to a round robin between App/Furman/GSU. The schedule was such that each team got one of the other at home, and one on the road. Often, they'd see each other again in the post season. It was not uncharacteristic for those three to all be ranked top 10. I see a lot more parity now. 15 years ago, the talent gap between the top of the conference and bottom of the conference was enormous. Now, every team is talented. They can all play. They can all compete. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that FCS football has gotten more competitive in recruiting for the reasons we discussed earlier. Teams that were former doormats (Samford), didn't even exist (Mercer), or played at a lower level (Elon) have added competition to a market that formerly had comparatively few programs competing for players. |
|
|
|
Post by FUBeAR on Sept 21, 2016 10:32:02 GMT -5
I certainly don't have the historical knowledge that a Jackal or a FUBeAR have. I've really just been "into it" the last 4 years. But, outside of the fact that the SoCon is a very good conference, it also seems that all of a sudden there is a ton of parity. Quite literally, on any given Saturday, someone could jump up and beat someone else. Which also contributes to the grind of a full conference season. Seems like there were certain periods where a Furman, or an App State, or a GaDou would just tear through the conference. Or a couple of those teams would be battling it out at the top. To me, doesn't feel so much like that right now. I started really following the conference probably in 2001, so time before that I would defer to FUBear. There is a lot of parity. My own personal opinion is that the conference was far more top heavy in the 2000s than it is now. I personally think that Furman/App State/Georgia Southern teams of those years would run UTC off the field. All three of those teams were legitimate national title contenders. Wofford, too, periodically would shoot up with a good team a really difficult to defend and disciplined offense. In those years, the SoCon would really come down to a round robin between App/Furman/GSU. The schedule was such that each team got one of the other at home, and one on the road. Often, they'd see each other again in the post season. It was not uncharacteristic for those three to all be ranked top 10. I see a lot more parity now. 15 years ago, the talent gap between the top of the conference and bottom of the conference was enormous. Now, every team is talented. They can all play. They can all compete. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that FCS football has gotten more competitive in recruiting for the reasons we discussed earlier. Teams that were former doormats (Samford), didn't even exist (Mercer), or played at a lower level (Elon) have added competition to a market that formerly had comparatively few programs competing for players. FU Teams of the early 80's would have whooped 'em ALL - past, present, and future! |
|
|
|
Post by jackal on Sept 21, 2016 11:13:41 GMT -5
I started really following the conference probably in 2001, so time before that I would defer to FUBear. There is a lot of parity. My own personal opinion is that the conference was far more top heavy in the 2000s than it is now. I personally think that Furman/App State/Georgia Southern teams of those years would run UTC off the field. All three of those teams were legitimate national title contenders. Wofford, too, periodically would shoot up with a good team a really difficult to defend and disciplined offense. In those years, the SoCon would really come down to a round robin between App/Furman/GSU. The schedule was such that each team got one of the other at home, and one on the road. Often, they'd see each other again in the post season. It was not uncharacteristic for those three to all be ranked top 10. I see a lot more parity now. 15 years ago, the talent gap between the top of the conference and bottom of the conference was enormous. Now, every team is talented. They can all play. They can all compete. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that FCS football has gotten more competitive in recruiting for the reasons we discussed earlier. Teams that were former doormats (Samford), didn't even exist (Mercer), or played at a lower level (Elon) have added competition to a market that formerly had comparatively few programs competing for players. FU Teams of the early 80's would have whooped 'em ALL - past, present, and future! 2004 Furman Paladins. www.furmanpaladins.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2004-2005/teamcume.htmLook at those daggum numbers. 34.5 ppg, 454.9 ypg, 226.2 ypg rushing, AND 228.8 ypg passing. Oh, and the defense only surrendered 16.6 ppg. If you want to talk about a team that would whip your butt all kinds of different ways, that team is a good place to start. |
|
